Selected category ◊ Onomastica-Pacle names ◊

Antoni Jaquemot Ballarin

Another precedent of Tolo said by you TOLOGORRI:

“También llamado Iturrigorri ( 1.066 m ) por la fuente que mana en sus proximidades. La denominación Tologorri parece ser una evolución de este término : Iturrigorri-Turrigorri-Torrogorri-Tologorri. Se trata de una de las cumbres más destacadas de la sierra de Sálvada o Gorobel” .  www.mendikat.net

I think is on the contrary, first it was Tolo after that iturri. Then Tolo is “fountain”.  Labitolosa “below the fountain” ‘labe’ in Iberian  is “below the land”. It’s “la Fuente del Corán”; Toulouse (Tolosa) “Font de l’Estanh”.

About ‘idulki’ ‘dolare-habe’ is an expression  from Castilian “viga del lagar” .

‘Basi aŕebe’ script on the lead of Ullastret is “under law from the Rubbed”; ‘ aŕe “to perceive,  to receive, to warn” Basque ‘hartz’ ‘harrera’; ‘be’ “under”; ‘basi’ anointed  with holy oils. Basque ‘basitu’.

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Bassi  was a town. In our days is “La Vall d’En Bas”. Do you  know what’s its meaning? And do you know the meaning of others cities like Girona, Lleida, Manresa, Barcelona, Tarragona, Tortosa?  Tell me, then, your opinion about them.

By the way, Reus (Tarragona) is from Latin ‘redes’, “car ways”.

With respect to ‘aŕe’ here you are all these sentences:   ‘aŕesa’; ‘aŕeka’; ‘aŕetake’; ‘aŕetaunin’; ‘aŕebasikon’; ‘aŕeli’. Are all them about “sisters” or “male animals”? Because I suspect that you think ‘arr’ is “male”.

‘Ebaŕikame duigesiŕa’ is the correct sentence, not ‘du ixes’? You can see ‘bidedui’; ‘duidui’; ‘duiduiskeŕ’; ‘duiduibelauŕ’; ‘duiduiboste’.

Regarding ‘siŕa’ we have ‘esasiŕa’; ‘lasiŕa’.

‘ebaŕikame’ “madre de perdices”?  Say to me a town in Catalonia with this name.

‘Eba’ in Basque and Iberian I thing is “to cut” and ‘ebaŕi’ Basque ‘ebakinak “cutbacks” and ‘kame’  is ‘kama’ in Basque “stick, pole” metrological size. What kind of “cutbacks” are they?  And which measures? They are ‘dui-ge-siŕa’; ‘dui’ in Basque ‘unit things joined’; ‘siŕa’ is “esparto” ‘zirga’, ‘sere’ in Basque. After that the script follows with numbers.  Perhaps relating to “carpets” for covering, wrapping,  amphorae or pans or containers: ‘timoŕkir’ “tibor” in Castilian is a big vessel  with handle; ‘kotiban’ Greek “kotyle”;’ loŕsa’ Catalan ‘llossa’ “ladle”.

Of course, there are more things in this lead, but now is enough.

Angus J Huck

Basque dolare is surely a derivative of Latin dolium “earthenware jar for wine”? What possible connection does it have with Basque idulki, which refers to a block of wood? Latin loanwords never exhibit the pleonastic i-prefix, which is of ancient origin. idulki is zur with the old initial dental protected by the i-prefix, and its antecedent is Iberian tur (ultimately cognate with English tree).

To study any unknown language it is necessary to have a methodology which one applies religiously. It isn’t immediately obvious what your methodology is.

‘labe’ in Iberian  is “below the land”.

OK. So comparison with Basque provides us with an explanation. In ancient times, pottery was baked in pits. But wait. You offer up another explanation which is contrary to the prima facie (and entirely unproblematic) explanation. On what basis? If you could tell me what principles you are applying, it would help me see where you are coming from.

Basi Arebe eparikame du ixes “Basi Arrebe, the mother partridge flies off”, then a long list of people making offerings.

BASSI is a town, unidentified, but mentioned in Roman sources. arebe “sister” is a theonymic epithet badly mauled by Romanisation and attested in forms like OREBIS, REUS and REVVA.

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Where you have two anthroponyms side by side which share one of the compound elements, you are looking at a father and son or siblings. We see this on the Ascoli Bronze Plate, where it is stated explicitly that they are father and son.

So, SOSIMILUS SOSINASAE F “Sosinbilus, son of Sosinasae” “straight/round” + “straight/snipe”. Both have sosin “straight” as the hereditary element in both names.

OK. With me so far?

So Iraborts and Abarkeborts “dance/five” + ‘branch/smoke/five” are likely to be father and son or siblings. Both these names are suffixed with honorific -te.

The name cannot be duixesiraborts, because that would have five compound elements, which is unprecedentedly long.

du ixes does have a straightforward meaning: “he/she/it has escape”, or “she flies off”.

epar is an anthroponymic compound element, as is epaç. those words correspond most closely to Basque eper “partridge” and epetx “wren”. In Ullastret, epar has acquired the -i suffix, which is normal, and the word is being used in its original sense.

Now let’s look at kame.

Azkue lists (Bc) amea “madre de pajaros, animales”. So kame <*ko-ame, on the same model as kume <*ko-ume.

So eparikame du ixes “the mother partridge has flown off”. Then we move on to the list of supplicants.

So we’re there. The ar at the beginning could well be an abbreviated version of agur “hail!”

<<Regarding ‘siŕa’ we have ‘esasiŕa’; ‘lasiŕa’.

ira “dance” is an antrhoponymic compound element also present in two anthroponyms on the Yatoba lead foil: Gebelira and Esatsira.

LASSIRA is the name of a place, also recorded as RESPUBLICA LESERENSIS. What we have here is rather clearly an Iberian lisar “ash tree”. In the first rendering, we see a vowel metathesis identical to the one which creates Bilaros out of *belar-os.

<<After that the script follows with numbers.

There is only one number in that inscription that is used as a number, and that is bi “two” – baites bi “two permissions” (i.e., permission to give an offering to the deity, Basi Arebe). If this text really was about selling carpets, why bury it in a tomb?

<<‘timoŕkir’ “tibor” in Castilian is a big vessel  with handle

It is m, not b. There is no b here. This word corresponds to Basque tximur “wrinkled”. So, timoragir “wrinkled/visible” (you will find AGIR on the Ascoli Bronze Plate). koti or goti is also present is the anthroponym recorded in the Roman Script in the Basque Country itself, LUNTBELSCOTTIO, and also in the East Iberian Script as kote or gote. koti or goti is an anthroponymic compound element, + ban “pimple, spot, specific thing”.

Lorsaxetipi. A tripartite anthroponym. tipi occurs elsewhere, and you may recall lor “drag”, from Andion, where it appears as a compound element in the anthroponym, Apuloraun “bridge/drag/lord”.

Most of these texts are lists of names. Those with junstir “about to provide” are lists of donors of grave goods, and those with baites “permission” are lists of supplicants making offerings to deities (often in conjunction with a cremation burial).

<<Girona, Lleida, Manresa, Barcelona, Tarragona, Tortosa

Let’s have a go.

Tarragona, taragon on a coin. gon is “high”, while tara is a phytonym corresponding to Basque (Ms Lond) zarra “cress”.

Barcelo(na). <*bar-ko-elo “settlement.

Minorisa – Basque (BN) mihuri “nut kernel”.

That’s all for now.

Antoni Jaquemot

I regret that a song expression brings about this impression. I give my apology. I tried to show that a label of “impossible” given by you toward my explanation closes the pass to argue any questions about the Iberian language from the own area. The success pursue inspires hope for investigators.

Iberia is one of the names, according to Pagel, that would change little, the first appearance of this name in documents, is attributed to Herodotus (V century BC) and soon after Aeschylus, but later appears on many occasions and not always as a “driven reference” but as cool quote. This basic condition encourages to decipher their meaning².

Let’s dive 3 or 4000 years and go to old Iberia, who at that time it was for Greeks and Phoenician, just only the coastal strip of current Mediterranean Spain.

Think for a moment about the Eastern seamen arriving without fixed rates, that would bring consumer goods changing them by raw metals and minerals, dense loads, not perishable loads and that could be stowed in hours and would taken and steved in any season.

With these conditions, it is not likely that seamen had an special interest to go further inland crossing coastal mountains, but awared with a fast return as their vessels (having no estuaries), were left stranded in “Graos” or anchored in shallow water and exposed to a sudden storm.

For them, Iberia was only the coastal strip, nothing more.

Yet this is not the only known Iberia, as in the Caucasus, in the mountains of the eastern Black Sea, there is a region with the same name cited at least from the third century BC.

Looking at the limited available toponymy of nearby countries such as Portugal, France, Italy, Tunisia, Malta and Morocco, it appear similar place names, in France, Aquitaine, a “Lac Chiberia”, in Morocco there is “Siber” and “Siberne” several “Iberri, Iber, Khyber … Hiberia” And in Italy and numerous “Hiberia”, “Tiber “…

In Spain the thing is easier because you have huge lists of micro site names. If these records are analyzed, you can find a lot of material: A “Iberias” in the Serra do Farelo between Lugo and Corunna, “Iberian” in Navarre near Huarte Araquil, three “Ibero, Iberians, Iberondo” and almost a hundred names of same family as “Siberia, Siberio, Ibi, Ibina, Ibiza” (island), “Ibixa” (a farm house in Deba, Gipuzkoa), “Ibizar”, etc.. etc.., throughout Spain. See table at the end.

This means that such density and homogeneity, points to the absence of major changes in the names, so when Georgian historians and linguists rehearse endless chains of phonological mutations to make their “Iberia” look derived from the voice “Sasper” (a way to call themselves the Georgians natives) or other names they crave mathematics that suggest that just have been little changes; that the true origin is common with remote Iberias and the most consistent hypothesis is that those places were named by nomads who moved crossing the Iberian peninsula and going further, reacheing the European Plain and beyond the Urals.

Returning to the ground, the morphemes that compose “iberia” are very abundant between the small Mediterranean place names of that region and that also remain very stable despite the different spellings applied for millennia.

If we look at Iberia via Euskera, the canonical name of the river, “ibai”, “ibæi” is actually a phrase consisting of “i” water “bæ” current, movement and “i”, a common pluralizing suffix. Actually “ibai” is a phrase which means “Stream of abundant water”.

Palancia river on a a severe drought near Sagunto.

When combined with the adjective or suffix ” ero ” that (more than the quality of impetuousness Astarloa proposing as an adjective) expresses the idea of ​​regularity , frequency, trend, constancy, must be ” IBAE -ero ” just means something like “perennial watercourse” which in the Mediterranean environment of six or eight thousand years ago , when there were no dams, water reservoirs or any regulation, it was an “absolute” definition for the Ebro ( contracted colloquial pronunciation of ” ibæro ” ) , especially when compared with rivers like Muga , Fluvia , Besos, Tordera , Foix, Llobregat , Sec, Palencia , Turia, Xuquer , Serpis, Jalon, Riusec, Algar, Segura , Almanzora, Andarax , Adra , Guadalmedina , Guadalhorce, Guadaliaro , Arranque, Hozgarganta (all pre-Roman names , if not Iberian or Basque ) or any of the dozens of coastal streams that rush from Andalusia and fro m the eastern Penibetic foothills until the Guadalquivir who suffer so many droughts that cannot be called rivers.

The data suggest that the original voice was “Ibero” and then the linguistic methodology, the habits of visitors created several variants, generalizing, characterizing, etc.. using new and different vowels and consonants endings until a very wide range of meanings, from which the place names are shown last in Table I called “Iberia”, are just the sample that has remain frozen in the territories.

It is very likely that this can be the only successful from all that has been written about this topic: that initial voice was “Ibero” and hence the name “Iberia” came to the region, in fact, in current spaniard place names of this family is still much more common to see the final “o”.

After Iberia, the second Iberian toponym of contrasted importance and antiquity can not be other than España, lettered by the Romans as “Hispania”, being and as Basque as today’s España, but for fussiness or ideological fashion, very few want to pronounce.

This communication is a the very brief presentation of some increasingly obvious facts: one, that the place names is very reluctant to phonological changes; that the names of places change very little. Another, that there are a lot of place names in Spain and Portugal, apparently absurd that are repeated here and there, which are not recent but very old and were established by inhabitants who understood its meaning, the language in which they were called was similar to Basque and in the last years it has been done much progress in recovering roots of this language, so that a crecent number of names are finally being decoded coherently.

These developments show that neither the names traditionally considered canonical Ibero samples are, neither the present transcription of the Iberian epigraphs is on the right track.

Also we want to convey an important issue, as it is the need for a kind of archaeological research in languages ​​like Basque, to reach this, it is necessary to work on several disciplines and to have an open and dynamic mind, as our cultural formation corresponds only with the last millennia are the values​​, habits and techniques of this era which greatly determine the interpretations of the standard scientist, which is generally unable to take (for example) that men can be navigated with ease some 125,000 years ago and remains committed in the circulation between Africa and Europe was set to walk through the “Near East”.

It’s been more than four centuries since Baltasar de Echave suggested in his writings that the Spaniard was the original language of Spain: the Ibero. And it is very possible that before him, this question will have been raised by others whose record has been lost.

Of all those modern scholars have touched on this subject, the most lucid with notable advantage is Wilhelm Humboldt, who two centuries ago not only ruled that “place names are the main study material” but is the first to note that the names “have their own significance” and that the classical writers (Pliny, Pomponius Mela, Strabo …) modified transcription in origin because the names were “unpleasant and difficult to pronounce”, so that the names of Iberian cities they have left us in their reports, have little to do with the real sound, impossible to articulate by invaders 2,500 years ago, speakers of a language phonetically poorer.

This has led in practice to a biassed selection that over the centuries has had very negative consequences for the analysis processes such documentary records establishing themselves in the only basis for seeking the roots of Iberia.

Among a few place names and anthroponymics that we randomly selected among the most contested as Aemiliana, Albarum, Antonianu, Aracillum, Arotrebes, Arriaca, Barnacis, Caesaraugusta Calagurris, Castulo, Cervaria, Ilipula, Garumna, Lacippo, Laconimurgi, Laecuris, Lastigi, Libisosa, Lucentum, Maiorito, Mentesa, Mirobriga, Obulcula, Octaviolca, Oretum, Orniacus, Pleutaures, Salaria, Sisapon, or Salic, Toletum, Trifinium, Turgalium or Urbiaca, and conducted an analysis about 1,300,000 Spanish names, just “Arriaca” “Mentesa” and “Urbiaca” contain morphemes similar to those that make up the whole today’s Iberian place names, where no “ianu” “curies”, “Valium” or “acus” can be found.

This is a little drama that shows that our scholars have employed in whole centuries to analyze a corrupted item, so it is not surprising that they have not even established a common thread to advance plausible theories.

Moreover, the resolution of the Iberian epigraphy, the effort to reach a minimally valid transcription lies practically in the work of one man’s¹, work that is not able to withstand any critical analysis, so that after a century of cabals, reading all the translations, there appears just two complex words that seem to make sense in Euskera, “belagasikaur” and “binikebin” both in the lead from La Serreta, but even this pair of quotes could be the result of transcriptional whim .